Innovation with Impact: Inside Britam Connect Inclusive Insurance Revolution

In this exclusive Financial Inclusion Week 2025 feature episode of the IBS Podcast, we sit down with Liza Maru-Chelimo, an actuary and Head of Innovation at Britam Connect, to explore how one of East Africa’s leading insurers is rewriting the rules of inclusion. From her journey as a young actuary with a love for problem-solving to leading Britam’s innovation arm, Liza shares how Britam Connect evolved into a stand-alone InsurTech entity driving “profit with purpose.”

We unpack how Britam Connect is reaching 4.5 million lives, their groundbreaking parametric flood insurance, and a maternal health program redefining value-based healthcare. Liza also opens up about the lessons of innovation — failing fast, building sustainable models, and the power of partnerships in expanding access to insurance.

Key Topics:

• Inclusive Insurance and Financial Inclusion in Africa
• Britam Connect’s transformation into a stand-alone InsurTech
• Parametric Insurance for climate resilience
• Public-private collaboration for scale
• The future of InsurTech in Africa

This conversation reveals why Britam Connect is at the forefront of Africa’s inclusive insurance revolution—and why their story matters for the future of financial protection on the continent.

Check out our free resources on InsurTech ecosystem and innovation in the African Insurance space here https://linktr.ee/insurtechbusinessseries

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Transcript

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 0:58

My name is Liza Maru. I lead innovation for Britam Microinsurance. I am an actuary by training and industry in Kenya.

'Damola Oloko: 1:10

Great, actually. Very Now, I was going to go deep into into what exactly that means, because one of the things that in the past conversations that we've had with Marjorie Ngwenya, we explored some conversations around, you know, the actuary profession, uh, being that the limited number of actuaries in Africa. And then when you even look at But, yeah, uh, before we go into all of that, uh, I just wanted to ask, you know, how are you doing? Uh, how has things been? How has your year been? This is midway into the year.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 1:45

Ah. Um. I'm doing great. It's been a very exciting year. So, um, connect, uh, became a we just largely handling other emerging market. So it's been very exciting to set that up, to be able to get new partnerships, to be able to, uh, work with clients, let clients know that we are now an independent entity within the Britam holdings. Um, it's been great. I think, uh, just being able to Yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 2:21

Interesting. So that's a start up, you know, underneath the big, uh, that, that that's a very interesting dynamics. Yeah.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 2:28

Yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 2:28

I guess there'll be there have create a new entity. But we will get on to that as But let's go back to something You are an actuary, right. Um, can you take us back to to What drew you into this world of What were those first steps

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 2:49

It would be very interesting to I was eighteen, I didn't know uh, back when I was a child. So like between primary and high school, I really loved mathematics, and it's one of the things I wanted to do as a career. I always thought that it's very do logical, um, calculations. So, um, when I go to high school and, um, were trying to figure out, okay, what kind of career I want to take part in, one of the things I always thought about was engineering. Um, but then through the course of my high school, I realized that most engineers tended to work outside for, like, long hours.

'Damola Oloko: 3:32

And.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 3:33

Under the heat of the sun. And I was like, probably. That's just not my vibe for you. Yeah. So when I was in my final year is the time I stumbled, uh, into actuarial science. And what interested me most about it was that it was a combination of business and mathematics. At least that's the only course And I ended up getting into an actuarial science degree in my university. So I joined Strathmore, which is So the beauty of the university that they encouraged people to, um, pursue their professional papers. And that's how I ended up now getting to the actuarial path fully. Once I finished, um, university, pricing analyst at a health And that's how the story of me Um, it's been almost, uh, eleven I always thought I would leave, but it I always find that insurance finds ways of, like, keeping you. Yeah. It keeps you, you know, just when you think you want to leave, the next thing you realize. Oh, no. Like I want to stay here So, um. Or you find something that would you really don't want to exit been quite an interesting

'Damola Oloko: 4:59

I mentioned that we have spoken with Marjorie Ngwenya in the past. Um, someone else that we spoke with who is driving something very different as well, is at wits. I don't know if you know him So virtual actuaries, uh, is And, um, what's very interesting what goes on and, you know, in profession and how important, for insurance specifically. I mean, a number of other But if you look at insurance, you really you really are at the core of of how we sort of do things. And so it was very interesting to see that for your role, you are not, uh, chief actuary, for example. Right. Or within sort of like, you But you had innovation. Very interesting mix, right? Because one of the things that driving innovation over the past traditional and innovation, they Yes. So how did that come about and what exactly does it mean when you are looking at when you say, oh, I am head of innovation at connect?

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 6:23

Yeah. So, um, that's a very And I get that a lot, uh, them and actually everyone keeps going to be innovative at all. But one of the things I realized through my career path is, um, first, I really love problem solving. And, um, as opposed to the you have all these models that you would know what to do, what Like it's very straightforward, who's more passionate about to get out, interact with apply your technical skills. So through my career, I think, uh, just in my last role, I realized because I was a product development manager. So I realized that what I'm really passionate about is that step of designing and crafting something new. And then the rest of the things like, um, uh, product pricing, everything else really falls into place. But where I find my biggest that there's this problem that design a solution for it. And so the, the traditional, uh, like much my, my interest. But mostly I think it's also very, um, talkative. I'm very extroverted. I struggled to be in a back, uh, back room in the corner of an office, doing and crunching numbers. I think where I found I really engaging with sales agents. I was excelling, engaging with partners and trying to really come up with a with a solution for them. And so when Britam came calling and what I think they're really keen on was like to get an actuary who would be front facing, because one of the challenges that they had was that the internal actuarial team, despite them being very well experienced, they didn't have or have empathy for the customer. They didn't have understanding And so when there would be so much back and forth between the actuarial department and the partnerships or the client client teams to get into a solution, that really what you needed is an actuary who'd get out of their their desk and go and meet these clients and truly understand what the client needs and be able to craft a solution for the client, either together or come back and quickly craft it. So it was really just to get someone to to get out there and be able to understand the client. And that's how I ended up at So the particular role was, uh, customer innovation, because Britam had a very clear growth strategy of getting to millions of customers, and that meant that the products needed to be very relevant, extremely affordable, but at the same time needed to be sustainable from a profitability perspective.

'Damola Oloko: 9:37

Yeah.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 9:38

And so they thought that they to be able to do that. But at the same time, someone who can who can create or solve those problems. And yeah, that's how I ended up Um, I can't say that right now. I barely do much of product Most of my work has been partnerships and, um, building solutions that are relevant for the clientele. Uh, there's very little on the of project management. It's a lot of, um, strategic So it's I think it's just like, It's how life takes you. You get to your feet. Yeah, but you never really know

'Damola Oloko: 10:24

Yeah.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 10:25

Yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 10:26

Yeah, because those are unique I mean, being able to mix And and that innovative mindset, a different mindset is a unique skill. I mean, I dare to say that you're you're a very rare breed, right. Because one of the things that we've seen as well is the skill gap. Right. And you you spoke about the fact being able to mix with the new And so how do we make it work Um, but yeah, I think very, very interesting to see that, uh, players like, uh, Breton are thinking differently and, you know, at least even had that kind of, um, mindset or approach or even thought about, hey, we need to do things a lot differently. And there is this segment of the market that we need to target more. Uh, they are speaking a different language, so we need to approach them in a different way, although we also need to survive and remain as a business. And so, uh, being able to marry that it takes a very special skill. So I mean, well done. But I guess the the question one and the, you know, taking earlier, in fact, that Breton startup that's supposed to be Uh, and we will talk about this, own perspective and speaking playing within the space, maybe of the activities that that you there is a strong case to be technology within the insurance in East Africa are understanding that you have driven and or you

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 12:17

Yeah. Categorically, yes. And I it's because of different But the main one is, at least insurance industry, is that when processes and systems, you come built for the African context. So they're built for European markets where everyone understands what what is in those policies. But if you bring if you try and where things are just naturally Yeah. Um, systems are they need to be People barely read people. They literacy levels are very We really are trying to sell our And maybe that's the that's the We're selling Lamborghini in the It's not needed. And so there has to be that the insurance industry to Because one of the things that we foresee, at least from what I'm seeing ahead, is that it would it won't be the insurance industry that will disrupt itself. Like what will likely happen is not in the insurance industry, it's a bank, whether it's an insurance industry, and we'll and keep up. And so if we're not building that innovation and building that capability and think tank within ourselves, then we technically just surviving on the atom that we had from the years that we we have been operating.

'Damola Oloko: 14:31

Yeah.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 14:32

So, uh, one of the things I think, um, at least most companies where I'm seeing is that they're heavily investing in innovation, heavily investing in technology, but more so heavily investing in trying to understand their customers better and understanding that you don't necessarily have to act alone. Sometimes you you partnerships

'Damola Oloko: 14:57

Yeah.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 14:58

Yeah. So I, I think I honestly if I was to just think of the insurance industry in the next ten years. If we don't change anything to do with our innovation and technology base, then we are technically just killing ourselves.

'Damola Oloko: 15:13

Yeah, I agree with you. You spoke earlier about the fact that Britam Connect is now a standalone. You have a startup driving some of these things, and, you know, Britam as a business now Britam Connect have become sort of like a reference point when you're looking at this space, especially in East Africa. Can you take us behind the and what is the vision? And it has to be what's the thing that is exciting and keeping you within the insurance industry?

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 15:46

Yeah. So actually our mission or but with purpose. That's our tagline. And, uh, connect and how I think, um, Britam Connect uh, which was initially just as a microinsurance business unit under General Insurance started, was that it was actually accidental. It was like, um, one of the were going to sell, uh, a to, uh, cooperative. And then the cooperative said, business only if you try and give to our farmers. Because what is happening is our farmers are getting sick or dying, and there's no resources to cover their liabilities. That and so that's how it And, um, in the first year where to thirty thousand customers in And that's the time we realized, oh, there's a market here that somehow we've not looked at but looks promising. And the good thing that they traditional processes on this happening is that there are the premiums are so low that it use an ordinary underwriter to And so that's when they decided to separate this unit and build a microinsurance, I would say business unit within the general insurance company. Over the years, it's grown, um, So we're covering farmers, we're covering informal groups. Uh, we call like, uh, savings Uh, we're covering welfare Uh, we're covering, um, women, the urban areas, market sellers. So we have a huge range of four point five million lives. But I think what I would say is that the main vision is, has been always being able to tap, have an impact story to the kind of business or commercial practices that we, we, we are doing. So Britam, which originally brand, is trying to connect with people in Kenya or the clientele

'Damola Oloko: 18:33

Mhm.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 18:33

Yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 18:34

I mean four point five million I mean the first question would then be in terms of when this whole thing started to now comparing, uh, the kind of growth in number of customers to, you know, different business, be very interesting to see. Right. Because I think one of the things that you see within this space is the kind of impact and kind of reach that you can have, you know, and, uh, again, we are targeting the largest group of the population. And so we're very interesting. And, you know, you talk a bit sort of like a startup. Why why did that happen? Why did it need to stand as an And is the the focus today? Is it same as it was at the

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 19:23

So, um, so we had like a two One of the reasons was that, um, the regulator in um, which is the insurance regulator of Kenya, in twenty twenty, uh, published some regulations on micro insurance and what they were urging the, the industry was at to explore, uh, trying to build micro-insurance, uh, companies. Um, but mostly I think they were non-insurance companies to join Yeah, yeah. So whether it's in short text. So to create this easier, um, regulatory Framework for smaller microinsurance companies. But mostly I think, um, even we were growing consecutively. And so in twenty twenty three, I think we had, uh, a revenue of roughly, um, was it twelve million dollars? So this, of course, sparks the up the a separate entity. Just to give you context, most say that Britam revenue currently is definitely companies in Canada. Yes. So it was quite mature even. Yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 20:45

That's before even being a

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 20:48

Exactly. And so and so I think it was very important to separate it uh, both from a governance level. Yeah. To make sure that you're having You're getting the right board. And so with that I think becomes vision was to have this, uh, both business but at the same time impact lens uh, for bottom connect and even, um, with how it was set up with the kind of board members, with the kind of management and staff, they aimed to have both, uh, passionate teams who are keen on, um, profit, but at the same time on impact. And so the drive still One of the targets that we have is to, uh, become the M-Pesa of Britam. Just to give you context, M-Pesa is a huge, uh, mobile money platform that is owned by Safaricom.

'Damola Oloko: 21:42

Safaricom?

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 21:43

Yeah. So they, they, they see that really gets in touch with Kenya and so translates that time, into value to the Society. Yeah, yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 21:59

Yeah. I mean, I think with four definitely on that path, right? Uh, and you're talking about And I think one of the, the going to go into some of the done over the years, either now that you're driving it, um, some of the interesting, have brought to market and some has come out of those solutions, point five million lives, right. That is impressive. I think the other part, then, when you're looking at microinsurance and inclusive insurance as well, is utilization in terms of are people actually using the insurance and engaging with the insurance and and seeing the value? Because when you buy insurance, it's not when you use it, you know, you know, you use it a day, ten days a week, a month after. That's when insurance then Um, so be interesting to hear You know, some interesting things that, uh, that has come out of Britam connect and some of the stories I think that is worth sharing.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 23:11

So, uh, I'm thinking of two specific stories, and the first one has been on, um, a parametric flood insurance product that we did in twenty twenty three. And, uh, this is where we were trying to create something very different in the climate space in, in Kenya or in East Africa, East Africa generally, the kind of climate products that exist are mostly for farmers and agricultural product. But then you have all these been left out, despite them disasters, whether it's drought And, uh, one of the things that we were really keen on is can we explore Law creating a flood insurance product for the Kenyan households. And we were targeting specific regions where we found that there was a very it was very flood prone. So there was Kisumu County, and then there's some counties along ah, the the largest river during the rainy seasons. So we built a product that would of severe floods. And interestingly, uh, we worked was willing to, um, at least, What was very interesting was that were onboarded, it was of financial product. So they'd never didn't have a They of course had a money mobile money account, but then that was the first time they were technically hearing about insurance. And even just trying to explain not really easy. So, um, but I think based on how to make payouts to the floods and, uh, the, the, the we're able to trigger some directly to the households. And that's the time we realize because during such disasters, NGOs or the humanitarian the government to declare that funds can be triggered. Mhm. And so this delays support or need it the most. And when you can use insurance to be able to support that, or to be able to even provide, uh, a payout, uh, in time, then it becomes a really good way to, to finance these disasters or to have a risk finance for disasters. Of course, the biggest question has always been the sustainability of such a product. But if you think about it, when it's second from, uh, county level or from a sub sovereign level, then it becomes really sustainable because you're not going to be making payouts to everyone. You're going to be making payouts to those sections where it's vulnerable. And of course, now it becomes sustainable in the long run. The second.

'Damola Oloko: 26:47

Yeah, I wanted to ask some questions in terms of what you just shared. And parametric insurance is very interesting to me, and I think that it can be very, very important. Um, model to help us on the African continent in terms of providing compensation to the most vulnerable. Right. And, you know, the, the, the, the very nature of parametric means that it's going against, I won't say, well, let's not say against is is different from the traditional, uh, indemnity process. Right. And then you spoke about, um, the fact that many of the people who enjoyed or were part of this, this initiative and this product are were customers under this product? Uh, this was their first time of And so they are engaging with a insurance, a different approach. I'm just looking at it and maintaining that expectation. Right. Because with parametric But when you compare that to the long time in that kind of There will be an adjuster will They take a few weeks and but hours and days. It will be minutes, uh, depending on on how how it is structured. I just wanted to pick your you look at parametric opportunities can that bring for and looking at the learnings

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 28:20

Yeah. So I think from our very strong tool. Uh, one it builds a lot more trust with the communities because it's been it's it is something that can be independently verified. And so the insurance company is told or informed that these are payouts based on the, the person who's assessing the risk the first. The other thing is that there's very timely payouts to the client. So what would take weeks or even It becomes very easy because all you have to do is get the loss assessment reports. Yeah. And once it's something that is make the payments to the other interesting thing that we used as a preventative tool. Um, so that as an insurance company, if you know that you have your insuring a community in a region that maybe is prone to floods or droughts or disasters, if you could have any predictive capabilities and you can easily have anticipatory action. So that means that you almost warn the households to either move or to be able to, like, uh, do something before the the disaster worsens. So this helps you as an insurer your claims course?

'Damola Oloko: 29:51

Yes.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 29:52

Um, so. Well, we've seen very Is, for instance, uh, for these are predicted drought and at the, the rainfall patterns, And immediately there's a pair that is triggered to the pastoralists to go and purchase fodder for their animals, so that that reduces the level of disaster that would have incurred in case the cows died out of either dehydration or malnutrition. We find it being a very to support the kind of, uh, run or to support innovative Yeah.

'Damola Oloko: 30:37

Very interesting because, uh, very, very important point as well that you made in terms of, for us as an industry moving from reactive to preventive, right. I think it's very important to we we are on a journey with our Uh, understanding as well that. Yes, it's not when they pay for insurance, uh, uh, that they enjoy insurance. It is at the point of claim when the risk, you know, sort of crystallizes. How do we ensure that we are And so what that means is that you have opportunities to see occur, why not help to prevent, occurring or reduce the impact And that does two things, at least for my view on your side, just like you said, reducing claims and I think for insurance expenses is is sort of like the only, only part of, of your books that you can really control. Right. And so that's a good way to sort of manage that on the other side as well. To the customer. Customer sees you as being on Uh, your partners, you know, not but you are actually a partner. Insurer is very much interested And this can be maybe for the It can be for the family or for And all of this I think is very, very, very important and very interesting. Uh, when you look at So yeah, thank you very much. So you wanted to give the second

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 32:11

So our second example has been on, uh, maternal health care program that we are running within our health insurance, uh, product. And this one was started more as where we realized that the, the, insurance product had a higher, So you'd find that, um, if you benchmark, uh, they tended to after, uh, after delivery. And so one of the things that of course, this does is that it increases the cost to you as an insurer. And so one of the things that we what ways can we intervene to particularly on our side, but also like to improve the And uh, on the mothers And we developed a product, a or like bring in the women, uh, program, they're pregnant, would take care of themselves, what kind of exercise to do, uh, visits they should attend. Uh, we'd also refer the visit, uh, as well as follow up right, uh, medical services. So, um, just this year, uh, because we started it last year, just this year, we saw a fifty percent drop in our in the readmission rates. And particularly for the women And what we found out is that that information and, uh, communication and engagement with the women supported in reducing that risk, particularly. So it was it's very interesting, it's something which we feel, in because it might seem more as a a marketing cost. But at the same time, you're your claims costs. So what we're trying to now do healthcare frameworks where, um, which now we work with providers Instead of just being waiting then we pay the amount. Whatever. How many? However many times he goes to being concerned to wonder why is so many times? Is that something that he should is a better care he should receive? So we'd rather putting more investment in the prevention than to wait until things are very difficult or adverse for us to intervene. Yeah. Um, you.

'Damola Oloko: 35:17

Know, in my mind, I was then about the journey from, you Vietnam and then creation of, of about some of these initiatives And I'm wondering, um, do you go I see that there's a lot of work, you know, and this is, for me, understanding what it means to, to really drive inclusive insurance. So there's a lot of work And so when you look at the work things that you are driving and you've mentioned are how pivotal things that you're doing and you

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 35:57

Uh, what we find is that partnerships is quite critical, and it could be partnerships in different forms. It could be partnerships in distribution partnerships as well as in technology, because we also cognizant that we don't have the best systems as insurance companies. Right. And so it's really important shortcuts that are present that make the process more seamless And so what we actually really inclusive insurance is that And so you have to find ways in which, uh, you either you're working with a partner to either target a client, especially if you're looking at a large mass and to have a sustainable product. Partnerships are very key. Working with partners also enables you to penetrate some markets. So when you work with a partner brand in a market, then really to be able to get clients to Uh, so it really makes it, um, viable product, um, especially not have the best, um, So if you're working with a trusted, then it's much easier

'Damola Oloko: 37:27

Yeah. So I wanted to ask in terms of some of these customers you talked about, uh, you know, four point five million plus customers that you've, um, sort of reached so far, um, what has been, at least again, be in your market. What has been the thing that you've seen in terms of the best way to approach or to get customers to engage with this product. Is it embedded insurance? Is it the USSD? Is it some of these partnerships know, within the ecosystem of these fintechs or, you know, you seen work or is it a mix of

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 38:08

The mix of it's a mix of all all But where we find it depends As a business. I think we have two targets, so we have both a revenue target, but at the same time a customer acquisition target. Right. And where we find that we get into like the most high value working with, uh, like a We try and sell the product either use an agent, the agent So for instance, if it's a co-operative, we use the field officer to sell the product, um, because it's easier for the customer to understand what they're buying. And you tend to be selling uh, demanded by the customer. Yeah. On the other side, when it comes to the customer acquisition, where we always find, uh, the biggest benefit has been in having a simpler product and embedding it into, uh, an ecosystem. And so this is where the embedding into digital platforms, whether it's an SSD platform, whether it's an app, has been very critical because we realized that without embedding some services, uh, some products, people will never understand what exactly the value is. And so, uh, being able to build someone realizes, oh, I bought it came with insurance. And in case I get an accident, that's a term that they'll feel Otherwise, it may be very hard to sell an accident product to someone who has never had an accident. So we find that there has to be And it all comes back to what exactly is the business's main goal? Is the goal to drive as much goal to also have as much impact So that's um, that's that's a Um.

'Damola Oloko: 40:23

Thank you very much. You shared a lot about, uh, some and Brighton Connect has been enlightening and eye opening. What are the lessons that you've terms of Driving inclusive the protection that they need.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 40:47

I think the three main lessons I would start with, um, at least from sitting from an innovation seat, is that you have to get used to failing and, um, you need to fail forward and fail fast.

'Damola Oloko: 41:01

Sorry, I'm sure this this would reasons why you needed to create

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 41:07

Exactly.

'Damola Oloko: 41:10

Don't like to fail?

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 41:11

Yeah. No. No one wants to fail. So when you fail, don't cry Spill to me. Just move on. Move to the next thing. And, uh, it's just to also share nice things that are happening. But behind every one successful project there are like nine that didn't work. And so you have to always be in will work and the things that do funnel is wide enough so that at projects that are successful. The other thing is that It's very easy for for inclusive focused, um, on impact. Be focused on, uh, trying to get for as low a price as you can, sustainable partnerships, sustainable prices and would be really sad in offering a really wonderful take it out of the market in the And so there has to be even as as you're getting into always have to have that long you doing that program? Will it survive for two years or three years or five years Is this let up even for the business? Uh, it's something that they can a long term, uh, shot. And I think the third one is, as a private sector player, to Uh, but where we found that the biggest successes tend to happen is through working with, uh, consortiums. But at the same time, working So, um, working with the deliver some of the programs, credible partner, they are or the populations, um, you're sometimes subsidize some of the And, uh, in the long term, uh, once your program is embedded into a policy, then really it becomes very easy for people to buy it, for people to understand it. And so there has to be that lens and private, have to work But in order to make the biggest

'Damola Oloko: 43:49

Be happy to fail. Sustainability should be front private partnership and I think when we were speaking, I remember that, um, recently AXA and uh, the Lagos State government in Nigeria, they launched a parametric, uh, flood insurance. Uh, so very interesting times, definitely in the space of, of insurance. So, so yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And as we close out now, I definitely want to pick your brains in terms of what the future holds. You um, alongside your Connect, I've been driving insurance to to Kenyans, to East My question is when you look at the next five years, so twenty thirty, twenty thirty five, what do you see as the biggest opportunities for onshore tech in Africa? What role do you hope to play in

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 44:55

A very good question, Nadia. I think one of the things that more accessible and simpler is try and do, particularly for the And so definitely where we'd the distribution of insurance, buying a loaf of bread. Until that is done, um, we'll we'll be it'll be we'll be very far from trying to capture the society. We need to make it so easy to purchase it and so loved as a product that, uh, people actually buy it, you know, um, they go to the, to the supermarket and buy an insurance plan, or they go to the next, uh, kiosk and buy an insurance plan. So those are the main I think those are the main areas that we are. We are really keen on expanding

'Damola Oloko: 45:57

Definitely very interesting I think we're just scratching I mean, I was looking on the Ghanaian market, there was a around some reports that was insurance penetration in Ghana. And, you know, the reports noted I don't know what the number is

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 46:22

Uh, we're like two point five I Mhm. Right.

'Damola Oloko: 46:27

So, so two point five one Um, in Nigeria maybe zero point Right. So for me, what I see in all of this is the your opportunity, right? Opportunity to get insurance to Um, because at the end of the day, they actually need the protection, right? So it's not a a luxury thing. Perhaps you can look at it Some products can be luxury. But we are talking about uh, that they don't fall back into level, not falling even deeper. Uh, that's where insurance can And when you talk about financial inclusion, when you talk about when you speak about those things that don't include insurance, I think it's a huge miss. And so I guess it's for us as know, even if it's having companies like Britam, starting begin to see things differently, And so, um, well done to to what you're doing and what you're driving. Um, it was great. You know, learning about what what's what's happening within the space. Um, I'm definitely looking more from from you and and what, I mean, I think I mentioned to you that we had, uh, uh, some time ago on the podcast, also sharing some of the things that, you know, that the team is driving at. Um, so it was very interesting the new things. Now there's a standalone. I don't think that existed then, Thank you very much.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 48:04

Thank you so much.

'Damola Oloko: 48:05

If people are looking to connect with you or connect with Britam to partner to to to to talk a bit more about how to to to collaborate, how can they do that? Where can they connect.

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 48:15

So they can either reach me on plain Liza maru, or they could email, which is L maru at com.

'Damola Oloko: 48:27

Thank you, thank you, thank you Thank you for sharing as much as

Liza Maru-Chelimo: 48:33

Thank you.